tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post8005303034798143450..comments2012-05-03T13:15:26.111-07:00Comments on Have Wit, Will Travel: "The Content of Their Character"Drakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-83303052461696416132010-02-04T14:30:37.055-08:002010-02-04T14:30:37.055-08:00Hey Drake, it's been a while. I appreciated yo...Hey Drake, it's been a while. I appreciated your post, and heartily agree with the position that ideas need to be separated from the people who champion them. If comics have taught us anything, it's that all heroes are flawed, because everyone is flawed. The difference is that the heroes are able to elevate some aspect of their lives to a higher standard than the rest of us.Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357189728863524201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-9494400257082651502010-01-19T18:24:00.168-08:002010-01-19T18:24:00.168-08:00"People do not like finding out their heroes ..."People do not like finding out their heroes are human, or that man behind the curtain is no wonderful wizard of Oz." <br /><br />"It is possible to honor the concepts the man championed without honoring the man himself."<br /><br />The only certainty we have in this life is that people will let us down, but his cause did nothing of the sort.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-38515944678307275052010-01-19T01:40:34.504-08:002010-01-19T01:40:34.504-08:00I really do. Perhaps not as quickly, but I do not...I really do. Perhaps not as quickly, but I do not think today we would still be living under the Jim Crowe laws from the 60's. He was one person, not the entire movement. His death definitely drove the point home dramatically, and probably sped up the process by a few years.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-6014227703952302952010-01-19T01:34:45.447-08:002010-01-19T01:34:45.447-08:00ok I think I get what you're saying, but do yo...ok I think I get what you're saying, but do you really think the message would have gotten accross if not for MLK?<br />Matt HannonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-47404704356563298772010-01-19T01:14:54.245-08:002010-01-19T01:14:54.245-08:00Yes, exactly...if you believe the movement would n...Yes, exactly...if you believe the movement would not have happened without him, and are willing to ignore all the other civil rights leaders before, after, and during his life. Seems like a pretty big jump to me, though.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-73952710292621662202010-01-19T01:04:15.638-08:002010-01-19T01:04:15.638-08:00ok honor the movement and not the actual man that ...ok honor the movement and not the actual man that made the movement possible?<br />Matt HannonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-48030404592243749862010-01-19T00:47:48.072-08:002010-01-19T00:47:48.072-08:00Exactly. I am glad he used his influence and popu...Exactly. I am glad he used his influence and popularity for good, but he was also a fraud and a hypocrite. His academic authority was built on a lie. His spiritual authority (preaching fidelity and resistance to temptation) was also built on a lie. This is why I will honor the movement he participated in but not the hypocrite himself. I'd prefer a Civil Rights Day over a Martin Luther King Jr Day.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-40485299249067712092010-01-19T00:34:20.631-08:002010-01-19T00:34:20.631-08:00Ok I think I understand what you're saying and...Ok I think I understand what you're saying and that is you can't fuck hookers and snort crack on sat night and preach fidelity and resistance to temptation on Sunday. hipocrisy, right?<br />Matt HannonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-86194284445794309652010-01-18T23:45:25.889-08:002010-01-18T23:45:25.889-08:00http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2449/was-...http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2449/was-martin-luther-king-jr-a-plagiarist<br /><br />This page gives a pretty fair spin on it. The ending paragraph sums up my feelings on MLK.<br /><br />"As every reasonable observer has commented, neither King's sexual wanderings nor his scholarly misdeeds detract from his core achievement. By continually publicizing black grievances while putting a palatable, nonviolent face on resistance to jim crow, King paved the way for the landmark civil rights legislation of the 1960s and a major turnaround in public attitudes about race. But there's no getting around the fact that he was a complex and deeply flawed man. Was he a great American? No argument here. Was he a fraud and a hypocrite? He was that, too."Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-33846981918929999302010-01-18T23:26:10.316-08:002010-01-18T23:26:10.316-08:00That was unintentional, I was not trying to imply ...That was unintentional, I was not trying to imply that he was a scumbag, only that he does not live up to his own standards. I think we're having the same discussion in two places at this point. I'll refer you to facebook for the longer answer.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-19440659119932733162010-01-18T23:00:35.720-08:002010-01-18T23:00:35.720-08:00Ok I'll ignore the whole MLK is a scumbag refe...Ok I'll ignore the whole MLK is a scumbag reference. I just don't get the whole point to this, what good could possibly be accomplished by this? Where is this incessant need to judge people coming from? Who are you to judge him? It does sound like you are tearing him down, and it comes off as quite anti anything MLK. I mean Adultery day is that really necessary.<br />Matt HannonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-89886006148756040212010-01-18T22:30:27.111-08:002010-01-18T22:30:27.111-08:00Why suppress the facts just because they are uncom...Why suppress the facts just because they are uncomfortable? I'm not tearing anyone down,just explaining why its possible to be a fan of an idea without being a fan of the man. Those who still want to keep a candle burning to his memory are certainly welcome to, but at least now they'll know who exactly they are celebrating.<br /><br />Its like the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa finds out that Jebediah Springfield was a scumbag. She decided that the people needed a hero to emulate even if it was entirely fictitious, so she kept her discovery to herself. I just don't think we have as big a shortage of real heroes as the good people of Springfield.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-65322831559271576412010-01-18T16:00:24.389-08:002010-01-18T16:00:24.389-08:00Well he did accomplish some big things against ver...Well he did accomplish some big things against very poor odds, maybe demigod isn't that far off. Ok so celebrate those people instead of tearing down others.<br />Gabriel: Really? So no civil rights movement and just another nobody that lived and died? Because I don't think we would be living in the world that we are if there weren't people like him.<br />Matt HannonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-46480162403257951362010-01-18T12:45:04.485-08:002010-01-18T12:45:04.485-08:00Well written, sir. If you ever get to expounding ...Well written, sir. If you ever get to expounding upon the legend of certain founding fathers, let me know. I'd like to read that as well.<br /><br />Anonymous: Yes, I would rather he be a good husband and father <i>before</i> he is a civil rights leader. A man's obligation is to his family <i>before</i> it is to anyone or anything else. <br /><br />You must also believe this to be true, or you would not get upset at Drake's "need to tear him down like this." If it weren't true, then these revelations would not be detremental to Dr. King's character. A cover-up wouldn't be necessary.Gabehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09347675802266464933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-91450792565910334542010-01-18T12:40:21.090-08:002010-01-18T12:40:21.090-08:00Stop being juvenile by pointing out all these ugly...Stop being juvenile by pointing out all these ugly facts. Be mature - ignore the facts.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18315246552514589985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-62777515253395480802010-01-18T12:20:36.429-08:002010-01-18T12:20:36.429-08:00Is it an either/or deal? He can either be a good m...Is it an either/or deal? He can either be a good man or accomplish great things?Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-77987622030022803632010-01-18T11:37:08.302-08:002010-01-18T11:37:08.302-08:00Because as a culture we've made a demigod out ...Because as a culture we've made a demigod out of him. He wasn't the only player in the civil rights movement, just the only one to die in a spectacular way. You can accomplish great things without being a great man, but I'd rather celebrate someone who has done both. There are no shortage of heroes from this period, we shouldn't have to invent them. <br /><br />I didn't say he smoked weed, though if the allegations of his using donations to the civil rights movement and his church to buy cocaine and hire hookers are true, than yes, I think that is detrimental to his cause. I could not find any solid evidence there. To me the fact that he was dishonest in not just his personal life, but his professional one taints the legacy he could have left behind simply by living what he preached.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-17507110884139142082010-01-18T11:29:20.219-08:002010-01-18T11:29:20.219-08:00Why? I don't understand why you feel the need...Why? I don't understand why you feel the need to tear him down like this. Would you rather he didn't accomplish what he did, but that he was a good husband? I don't think that it would have had the same effect. So he fucked around and smoked some weed, does that change the vision that he had, or make it any less worthy? Bringing to light past mistakes or sins as you call it, really seems juvenile and pointless.<br />Matt HannonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-61340583212529341112010-01-18T11:04:33.520-08:002010-01-18T11:04:33.520-08:00Ben Franklin was also a self-proclaimed bon-vivant...Ben Franklin was also a self-proclaimed bon-vivant and something of a hedonist, he made no secret about that. He wasn't masquerading as a Protestant preacher-man.. he may have been a player but he at least was rather open about what he was.<br /><br />And Franklin doesn't get a Federal holiday..neither does Jefferson. Even Honest Abe Lincoln has to share a day with a bunch of other presidents. For some reason only one American gets canonized, and its Martin "Do As I Say Not As I Do" Luther King Jr.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-16069291058477586802010-01-18T10:15:55.640-08:002010-01-18T10:15:55.640-08:00I was once told by a polysci professor who was the...I was once told by a polysci professor who was there for a lot of the marches, that he absolutley hated the fact, that they would be marching, and Mr. King would be driven to the front of the line while getting close to the finish point. <br /><br />Not sure if its true...and maybe its justified, lots of people were out to kill him...but none the less...letting other walk (do your work) for you and then taking credit..doesnt sit right with me. <br /><br />I like the comment about Ben Franklin...he was a major player...but a brilliant politician. <br /><br />-BrandonBrandon Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187475593541679233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-57415821504661711162010-01-18T09:31:39.666-08:002010-01-18T09:31:39.666-08:00Greg: Glad you're enjoying it. I think you...Greg: Glad you're enjoying it. I think you're right...too many potential riots in the streets (which, many of said streets are named after MLK). Maybe in another 100 years or so...<br /><br />Metasapien: I'd read some of the same accusations, and that he was a fan of beating said hookers rather brutally, but I couldn't find any credible scholarship on those so I left them out. Even the apologetic statement from his friend's biography qualifies him as less than worthy of our adulation, in my book.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-42994257410762783402010-01-18T09:27:35.491-08:002010-01-18T09:27:35.491-08:00I've been saying this for years! I'm glad...I've been saying this for years! I'm glad you tossed it down on [intarwebz] paper, though. His horrible acts don't just stop at simple adultery, though. The guy was a habitual liar and used civil rights (and church) funds to buy multiple hookers and have cocaine parties. The guy was a freaking scumbag, and I don't mind saying so. The whole nation is disgusted with Tiger Woods, and his laundry list doesn't include (that we know of) using people's offerings to God to pay for lines of cocaine to be snorted with dirty street hookers. The hypocrisy is abhorrent.Metasapienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11073906759909378178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-22665130467455061492010-01-18T07:57:38.557-08:002010-01-18T07:57:38.557-08:00Sure am enjoying your blog, frère. I do think the ...Sure am enjoying your blog, frère. I do think the day will come when we can admit as a collective nation that Martin Luther is akin to Benjamin Franklin--remembered for doing great things while in fact being quite dishonest (Franklin is lucky he didn't lived today; no one would praise a politician who impregnated his prostitute). It just isn't going to be for a few more decades. Like you said, it's still history (or rather a national myth) that is too fresh to be frank with.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04927415704540374717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-38945833570816747992010-01-18T06:32:25.236-08:002010-01-18T06:32:25.236-08:00Yes..I have a pretty low tolerance for people who ...Yes..I have a pretty low tolerance for people who choose to falter in dealing with other people's hearts. <br /><br />I am all for the civil rights movement, but depicting King as a national hero and giving him his own holiday makes about as much sense as giving Al Gore a Nobel Peace Prize for a power point presentation.<br /><br />There are plenty of other, less famous names that made contributions to civil rights without cheating on their wives or starting their careers on stolen dissertations.Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622313946195004021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3270059984080993141.post-7753155945854318982010-01-18T06:16:45.845-08:002010-01-18T06:16:45.845-08:00typical, typical, typical... odd that the most pow...typical, typical, typical... odd that the most powerful and "do-gooder's" of men have extramarital affairs. Bill Clinton comes to mind. but could it be that the excelling in their civic duties could be compensation for the personal mistakes they make that no one will ever find out about. <br /><br />just in my experience with cheaters it seems to be that they try to do many good and great things for the outward appearance of others. his marriage at home must not have been doing great though behind closed doors...that's the honest truth...even great men faulter somewhere...it just sucks that it's the somewhere that matters most in this life.christa elycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04469333843306829678noreply@blogger.com